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PvXwiki:Admin noticeboard/Resolved Build-Specific Issues/Archive 15
Punjab Prince needs to include a reason in his vote. even Krowman has one, even if it is nonsense.--Coloneh 18:02, 7 January 2008 (EST) :It's a bad build. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 18:05, 7 January 2008 (EST) ::Archived, due to general lack of functionality in comparison to when it was vetted a year ago. — [[User:Rapta|'Rapta']] 19px (talk| ) 22:39, 7 January 2008 (EST) The Gates Assassin's vote. Innovation = is this meta or will this be meta, not is this new?' — [[User:Teh Uber Pwnzer|Uber']][[User_talk:Teh Uber Pwnzer|'iz']] 02:40, 26 December 2007 (EST) :I have no clue where the is this meta or will this be meta ideas are comming from. When i read innovation, it asks how "new" the idea is. Does it use a "new" way of dealing with an old task. And is it expected to be the prototype of new builds. This sin build is neither, since it was taken from the prototype SP sin.Bob fregman 09:07, 26 December 2007 (EST) :Screw the trivial stuff, look at the complete falsity of his vote. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]] has 09:11, 26 December 2007 (EST) ::I agree fully, but the only point brought of by the original poster was innovation, which i agree with. After looking at his vote, i think it should be removed, a sentiment which i echoed not long ago on the builds talk page.Bob fregman 12:03, 26 December 2007 (EST) :::I'd say that we leave this alone, unless this falls down a category from people rating it down simply because it has basic counters and no self heal. Then we should complain about it imo.-- [[User:Victoryisyours|'Victoryisyours']] (''talk''/''RfA'') 20:20, 26 December 2007 (EST) ::::Now, someone needs to sort things out. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 15:48, 31 December 2007 (EST) :::::Having the best SP build out there in the good category is a disgrace. Remove the low votes that are voting low just to be rebels. [[User:Victoryisyours|'Victoryisyours']] (''talk''/''RfA'') 15:55, 31 December 2007 (EST) ::::::I agree. I also think that not having the best Withdraw Hexes build out there in the great category would be a disgrace... oh.. wait... --[[User:Edru_viransu|'Edru viransu']]//[[User_talk:Edru_viransu|'QQ about me']]/sysop 04:08, 1 January 2008 (EST) See my user page. –[[User:Ichigo724|'Ichigo'724]] 17:36, 31 December 2007 (EST) Now listed as a good build instead of great.' — [[User:Teh Uber Pwnzer|Uber']][[User_talk:Teh Uber Pwnzer|'iz']] 19:54, 31 December 2007 (EST) Resolved. — [[User:Victoryisyours|'Victoryisyours']] (''talk''/''RfA'') 14:59, 4 January 2008 (EST) Jujin's vote shows he never finished reading the skill description of Cry. Guild's vote is disproportionately low, and the comparison to the SH ele is questionable. --Mafaraxas 20:11, 31 December 2007 (EST) :Despite the fact it is true that it's a pain in the butt to find all the people needed? Anyway, just saying a team of SH Eles can do a better job at nuking. --20pxGuildof 20:22, 31 December 2007 (EST) Rapta's vote, too: failing to see the point for armor-ignoring damage, implying there may as well not be a PvE team category since "Any random setup can kill effectively and survive by throwing in your everyday make-party-invincible-paragon," which really doesn't apply to whether or not the build -works-, and saying the rit needs splinter is misjudging the point of the warrior (not to mention speccing into channeling would gimp the rit's attributes). Btw, can anyone point me towards the Style & Formatting for team builds? I don't see anything specifically for teams, though I did cut a couple corners from S&F for single builds for the monks and necros. --Mafaraxas 08:27, 1 January 2008 (EST) :Read: lack of. — [[User:Rapta|'Rapta']] 19px (talk| ) 20:09, 1 January 2008 (EST) Votes wipe, thanks. — Skadiddly슴Mc슴Diddles 15:14, 1 January 2008 (EST) :Resolved. 22:50, 7 January 2008 (EST) Fire Tock's vote misrepresents the build's capabilities. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 08:15, 2 January 2008 (EST) :Armond nuked it. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 20:47, 2 January 2008 (EST) ::How appropriate. :P Lord Belar 20:48, 2 January 2008 (EST) WTB reasoning. Lord Belar 15:59, 4 January 2008 (EST) :Well, they have an OoA healing necro/rit with bone minions. And imo, the build shouldn't even be in testing until the grammar is fixed, what with the random ...s, randomly capitalized words, etc. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 18:19, 4 January 2008 (EST) ::Oh, look, minions. Lol. I didn't read that far down. :P Lord Belar 14:05, 5 January 2008 (EST)What minions? Lord Belar 15:41, 5 January 2008 (EST) :::It was removed from the bar. — [[User:Victoryisyours|'Victoryisyours']] (''talk''/''RfA'') 15:42, 5 January 2008 (EST) ::::Uh, read the talk page? :P Lord Belar 15:46, 5 January 2008 (EST) :::::So I'm guessing you already knew the answer to your question? =P — [[User:Victoryisyours|'Victoryisyours']] (''talk''/''RfA'') 15:47, 5 January 2008 (EST) ::::::"And those minions you've got on the necro have to go. Now. Lord Belar 14:10, 5 January 2008 (EST) ::::::Done MGH 14:22, 5 January 2008 (EST)" ::::::Lol, maybe. Lord Belar 15:50, 5 January 2008 (EST) selket and dark morphons votes, they simply stack the regular counter-build arguments against the build, they also think alliance battle consists of 12 monk teams. klaner's vote, reasoning provided by my vote.--Kkagari 22:57, 5 January 2008 (EST) :Uhm I said "what they said" by which I meant the combo is slow and clunky and not something else. [[User:Dark_Morphon|'Dark']] [[User_talk:Dark_Morphon|'Morphon']] 04:44, 7 January 2008 (EST) Shogunshen gave the build a 0-0-0 obviously without testing. He claims that heroes do not use Broad Head Arrow or Epidemic well, which is simply completely wrong. Please remove his vote.--Goldenstar 17:34, 6 January 2008 (EST) :I didn't claim anything. I pointed to default Hero behavior. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 17:36, 6 January 2008 (EST) ::Because it's posted on wiki doesn't mean it's true. I have used the build extensively, and heroes use epidemic exceptionally well.--Goldenstar 17:45, 6 January 2008 (EST) :::They are terrible with it. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 17:57, 6 January 2008 (EST) ::::Just because heroes spam epidemic on conditioned targets does NOT mean they're good at using it. They don't know how to judge AoE. Tested the theories myself time and time again, and everything from Epidemic to Fevered Dreams to Lava Font to Searing Heat to Cyclone Axe, etc. They suck with AoE judgement. Badly. And I doubt it'd be fixed anytime soon. Plus, BHA is bad for anything that doesn't know that you should only use BHA on a target that's nearby or stopped and casting like Meteor Shower. cedave ( _buildpage) 00:38, 7 January 2008 (EST) :::::/agree.--[[User:Shadowsin|'Shadow'sin]] 00:57, 7 January 2008 (EST) Punjab's refers to skills that i changed, though that may not warrant a remove. However, bob: *says he agrees with punjab *then rates it pretty significantly lower. thanks. 11:59, 7 January 2008 (EST) :whoops, didn't notice the build changed. i'll change my vote accordingly. [[User:Punjab Prince|'Punjab']] 16:44, 7 January 2008 (EST) :done. [[User:Punjab Prince|'Punjab']] 17:01, 7 January 2008 (EST) ::Tbh anyone who votes with a "Wut he/she said" then votes lower needs to be hit with a smart stick. --[[User:Shadowsin|'Shadow'sin]] 19:35, 7 January 2008 (EST) Bobs vote also. He demonstrates ignorance if hes rating that build low on the grounds of it not being meta(lolz). and in general, he's rating a 16 second warmonger with something lower than 5. 11:59, 7 January 2008 (EST) :p.s. he voted higher on this which is according to rawrawr, resident official build master, is worse. 12:07, 7 January 2008 (EST) ::Vote is gone. Resolved. — [[User:Rapta|'Rapta']] 19px (talk| ) 22:50, 7 January 2008 (EST) Klomi's vote blatantly misrepresents the build's abilities. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 20:36, 7 January 2008 (EST) :I got it. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 21:31, 7 January 2008 (EST) I noticed a lot of votes on there are for things that have been edited from the build. Examples are Final Thrust (gone) and Cancel Stance for Frenzy (Rush, added). --20pxGuildof 07:21, 7 January 2008 (EST) :Done -- Armond Warblade 12:57, 8 January 2008 (EST) Rapta put a Dupe deletion notice on this build, which it does not deserve. I'm the author of the article, so I cannot remove it. Would someone please take a look? - (snō hwīt tăn) [sic] [găl'ə-rē] 07:44, 6 January 2008 (EST) :Tehre is nothing saying you can't take a WELL tag of if your the author (from what i understand) However, you would have to explain the reason you removed it on the talk page.PheNaxKian (T/ ) 09:53, 6 January 2008 (EST) ::Yes there is. Authors arent supposed to remove deletion tags from their own builds.Bob fregman 14:57, 6 January 2008 (EST) :::Anyone mind checking PW:WELL for this? — [[User:Rapta|'Rapta']] 19px (talk| ) 22:53, 7 January 2008 (EST) ::::With those tags, it's a "wtf are you trying to accomplish" build. -- Armond Warblade 13:42, 8 January 2008 (EST) Klomi's vote, since balth is included now, and Elocs vote, since it suggests defy pain as a better alternative to HH.Bob fregman 19:16, 22 December 2007 (EST) :elocs vote is still there and still wrong, have we given up on striking his votes?Bob fregman 19:30, 31 December 2007 (EST) ::I'm removing all votes of mine that I find.. — ク Eloc ' 02:23, 3 January 2008 (EST) :::Got hacked? --Mafaraxas 03:32, 3 January 2008 (EST) ::::No, enough people hate me now how it is. — 'ク Eloc ' 05:43, 3 January 2008 (EST) DE got it. -- Armond Warblade 12:59, 8 January 2008 (EST) Author vote-Gives a 5 in effectivness when he clearly states how vulnerable the build is..[[User:Phenaxkian|'Phe]][[User talk:Phenaxkian|'Nax']] 07:28, 24 December 2007 (EST) :Dealt with. -- Armond Warblade 13:45, 8 January 2008 (EST) The Gates Assassin's reasoning doesn't qualify the build as good. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]] has 09:30, 25 December 2007 (EST) :Done. -- Armond Warblade 13:51, 8 January 2008 (EST) Eloc and Terror's votes, Eloc, dont edit my comments.--19px[[User:Victoryisyours|'Victory']][[User talk:Victoryisyours|'is']] 13:44, 25 December 2007 (EST) :Done. -- Armond Warblade 13:52, 8 January 2008 (EST) Couple socks. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]] has 17:40, 26 December 2007 (EST) :DE got it. -- Armond Warblade 13:54, 8 January 2008 (EST) Heavy Yield's reasoning misrepresents the build's abilities. Eloc's is based on an unfounded comparison. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]] has 18:55, 26 December 2007 (EST) :Eloc's removed his. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]] has 14:04, 27 December 2007 (EST) ::Done. -- Armond Warblade 13:55, 8 January 2008 (EST) Massive's vote makes an unfounded comparison. [[User talk:Shogunshen|'hen']] 13:43, 28 December 2007 (EST) :Look at Selket's Vote on talk page. [[User talk:Shogunshen|'hen']] 14:50, 28 December 2007 (EST) ::/agree.--[[User:Shadowsin|'Shadow'sin]] 02:36, 29 December 2007 (EST) :::Yes look at my vote. Selket Shadowdancer 09:59, 31 December 2007 (EST) ::::All you did was take out the blatantly wrong part, and left the part implicitly relating to the blatantly wrong part. The fact you've realized how wrong you were and still are means your vote needs to be stricken regardless. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 19:27, 31 December 2007 (EST) :::::What is said in my vote is true and reflects the build pretty honestly. It's got a Good rating from me so I really don't see the point in complaining further about it when I've reviewed my vote, and adjusted it accordingly. Stop trying to force me to change my opinion. Selket Shadowdancer 19:31, 31 December 2007 (EST) ::::::The chain won't kill anyone outright and is conditional on you being the very first into the fight. This is an irrelevant point, and this irrelevance is why you changed your vote in the first place. This is not a plausible reason to rate this build anything other than great. I'm not trying to change your opinion. I'm addressing your logical fallacies, in the hope you will listen to reason. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 19:35, 31 December 2007 (EST) I don't see anything irrelevant about it because it is true. Selket Shadowdancer 19:45, 31 December 2007 (EST) :Are you forgetting why you changed your vote? [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 19:51, 31 December 2007 (EST) No not at all. Selket Shadowdancer 19:53, 31 December 2007 (EST) :Stop sucking at indenting. Care to explain then, just to make sure we've got things straightened out. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 19:56, 31 December 2007 (EST) ::Stop being rude. My vote explains all I need to say about the build, stop making such a big fuss over it. Selket Shadowdancer 19:58, 31 December 2007 (EST) :::You refusing to address me shows how little you understand the build. I can't support my case if you are going to give up. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 20:00, 31 December 2007 (EST) ::::No my refusing to address you is refusing to argue the matter with you any further. I don't have to awnser to you over a friggin build on a website. Selket Shadowdancer 20:04, 31 December 2007 (EST) :::::So giving up means you can't come up with anything to support your fallicious vote, and that it should therefore be removed. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 20:06, 31 December 2007 (EST) ::::::Basically, now both of you stop. [[User:Victoryisyours|'Victoryisyours']] (''talk''/''RfA'') 20:08, 31 December 2007 (EST) :::::::It would be much easier if he stopped trying to instigate a fucking arguement everywhere I go. His tone is rude, and undermining as if I'm some sort of child. I don't come here to put up with this sort of behaviour so fuck this I'm not bothering with this site anymore. It's easier to just not come here than have to put up with it. Later. Selket Shadowdancer 20:13, 31 December 2007 (EST) ::::::::Bai. — [[User:Rapta|'Rapta']] 19px (talk| ) 15:41, 5 January 2008 (EST) Zarka's vote shows he doesn't understand how it works. Constant DW...what other kind of DW would there be? Unless he means the chain is bad because it "stacks" DW. But one only executes the chain once. Death Pact Signet is great for PvE. This Build needs to be in Great. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 17:42, 6 January 2008 (EST) Done, left Selket's vote. -- Armond Warblade 14:00, 8 January 2008 (EST) Guild of deals vote, claims you can't keep shadow form up-you can (we had a similar situation with another build a while ago and everyone conceded in the end you can)[[User:Phenaxkian|'Phe']][[User talk:Phenaxkian|'Nax']] 15:31, 1 January 2008 (EST) :unfortunately, he's right, you can't keep it up anymore. when deadly paradox ws 50% you could, but not anymore.— [[User:Cheese Slaya|'Cheese Slaya']] (Talk) 15:51, 1 January 2008 (EST) ::urgh not again-you can, but you ahve to time it perfectly you cast arcne echo, shadow form when shodow form is jsut under half recharged cast the echo version and then start your chain again when you can (you jsut about pull it off) rember your using 20% long enchant mod as well......[[User:Phenaxkian|'Phe']][[User talk:Phenaxkian|'Nax']] 16:10, 1 January 2008 (EST) :::The fact is u can, and Ive done it many, many times after the nerf. I would also like to protest the votes that relate this build to the A/E boss farmer as the A/Me is designed to farm things that that build cant, like Fenrir and Jacqui The Reaver. --- [[User:Ressmonkey|'Ressmonkey']] [[User Talk:Ressmonkey|(talk)]] 06:27, 2 January 2008 (EST) ::::I changed my vote... Still doesn't help that the build is ridiculously slow. If you really wanted to farm Jacqui, then use a Toucher, Midnight solo, N/Mo Boss Farmer... --20pxGuildof 08:41, 5 January 2008 (EST) :::::Toucher will get overwhelmed by massive damage since jaqui can hit for 200+, Chillblians + Dark Apostacy = 1 hell of a dead N/Mo, and there are 3 other creatures in his group and u cant solo pull him, so N/Me doesnt work either. --- [[User:Ressmonkey|'Ressmonkey']] [[User Talk:Ressmonkey|(talk)]] 09:47, 5 January 2008 (EST) ::::::Hero-Hench + flagging off the radar after everything else is dead ftw. -- Mafaraxas 09:53, 5 January 2008 (EST) :::::::THen why wouldnt u use this build which doesnt require that? --- [[User:Ressmonkey|'Ressmonkey']] [[User Talk:Ressmonkey|(talk)]] 10:02, 5 January 2008 (EST) ::::::::That would be the point. Regardless, this is resolved. -- Armond Warblade 14:04, 8 January 2008 (EST) 5 in universality doesn't mean 3 in effectiveness, when taking into account the general purpose of the build. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 19:39, 1 January 2008 (EST) :Huh? -- Armond Warblade 14:06, 8 January 2008 (EST) Og lo's vote. Rock-paper-scissors, etc. --Pentient Engine Grammaticus 06:57, 2 January 2008 (EST) :Done. ~~ [[User:frvwfr2|'frvwfr2']] (T/ /Sysop) 21:26, 3 January 2008 (EST) ::? — [[User:Rapta|'Rapta']] 19px (talk| ) 22:56, 7 January 2008 (EST) :::Never mind. — [[User:Rapta|'Rapta']] 19px (talk| ) 16:49, 8 January 2008 (EST) Author vote-not a very good explanation, just says how he thinks it's better than a barrage build..[[User:Phenaxkian|'Phe']][[User talk:Phenaxkian|'Nax']] 07:30, 24 December 2007 (EST) :Methinks he removed it, because that build has no votes. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 09:41, 9 January 2008 (EST) ::good call. [[User:Punjab Prince|'Punjab']] 18:38, 9 January 2008 (EST) JenniferBelle's vote flagrantly misrepresents the build's capabilites. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 13:40, 4 January 2008 (EST) :Resolved. [[user:Defiant Elements|'*Defiant Elements*']] ''+talk'' 18:51, 10 January 2008 (EST) Disappeared build. — [[User:Rapta|'Rapta']] 19px (talk| ) 00:02, 5 January 2008 (EST) :WELL/DELETE. -- Armond Warblade 00:11, 5 January 2008 (EST) ::Was featured for a while and there was a lot of discussion in favor of it. Should have been archived. — [[User:Rapta|'Rapta']] 19px (talk| ) 15:37, 5 January 2008 (EST) Massive. — Skadiddly슴Mc슴Diddles 13:50, 5 January 2008 (EST) :Resolved by Edru. [[user:Defiant Elements|'*Defiant Elements*']] ''+talk'' 18:51, 10 January 2008 (EST) Massive again. — Skadiddly슴Mc슴Diddles 13:59, 5 January 2008 (EST) :Resolved by Edru (again). [[user:Defiant Elements|'*Defiant Elements*']] ''+talk'' 18:52, 10 January 2008 (EST) Subzero and Emeraldstone have less than 8 contribs. Yyasurayy's reason isn't appropriate. I heard the AoM Derv was good. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 16:53, 6 January 2008 (EST) :We're not doing the 8-contribs-before-voting thing ex post facto, if I remember correctly. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 17:30, 8 January 2008 (EST) ::Wrong topic? And I think armond or someone went ahead and removed them ex-post facto. We never really reached a concensus as to whether or not it applies, however. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 17:38, 8 January 2008 (EST) :::Bah, yea. I meant to put that in the next one down XD ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 17:43, 8 January 2008 (EST) ::::Alright, I moved it to the right section now ^_^ ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 21:48, 8 January 2008 (EST) moved to Build talk:Rt/any Warmonger's Supporter/Noticeboard discussion Rewrite. — [[User:Rapta|'Rapta']] 19px (talk| ) 22:32, 7 January 2008 (EST) :You don't like making new pages? -- Mafaraxas 02:59, 8 January 2008 (EST) ::Apparantly not. — [[User:Rapta|'Rapta']] 19px (talk| ) 16:37, 8 January 2008 (EST) I cannot find the tag for abandoned builds. Can sy help in this? Btw the whoule build is crap - including the name. Voidwalker 03:42, 8 January 2008 (EST) :Deleted. -- Armond Warblade 14:07, 8 January 2008 (EST) Author's rationale doesn't consititute a 5 in effectiveness. And a 5 in effectiveness with a 1 for universality doesn't work. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 16:54, 9 January 2008 (EST) :Fixed. [[user:Defiant Elements|'*Defiant Elements*']] ''+talk'' 18:38, 10 January 2008 (EST) Shadowsin's doesn't understand how powerful DPS and holy veil are. That and it's a spite vote. –[[User:Ichigo724|'Ichigo'724]] 19:21, 9 January 2008 (EST) :Also, requires restore. — [[User:Rapta|'Rapta']] 19px (talk| ) 21:46, 9 January 2008 (EST) ::Yeahhh powerful for the other team mayybee.--[[User:Shadowsin|'Shadow'sin]] 21:51, 9 January 2008 (EST) :::Not sure what you're talking about, I just want to keep that version of the build, be it in the Build namespace or my namespace. — [[User:Rapta|'Rapta']] 19px (talk| ) 21:51, 9 January 2008 (EST) ::::He's saying how he thinks veil is powerful for the other team, if your team brings it.— [[User:Cheese Slaya|'Cheese Slaya']] (Talk) 18:31, 10 January 2008 (EST) 2 votes in Trial... I didn't check contribs on either but I'd suspect socks because not many people (pretty much no one) does votes in Trial. --20pxGuildof 16:44, 9 January 2008 (EST) :I got them. Not socks, though. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 21:51, 9 January 2008 (EST) I don't quite see why Defiant Elements keeps going against the policys here. I didn't even see any of the votes or discussion on the build at all or any of the ratings. It was a perfectly viable build that worked. Please restore so I can atleast see the votes and discussion? — ク Eloc ' 00:05, 10 January 2008 (EST) :It was inferior to something not gibbing it's attributes for fire immunity (which is, tbh, meh anyway) — 'Skadiddly슴Mc슴Diddles 00:26, 10 January 2008 (EST) ::As was discussed, it was designed for a very specific area and therefore failed in other places. Did you honestly not see this coming? -- Armond Warblade 02:14, 10 January 2008 (EST) :I'm responding here merely because you brought me into this, but, since you've done so, how many I ask have I gone against policy? [[user:Defiant Elements|'*Defiant Elements*']] ''+talk'' 18:35, 10 January 2008 (EST) ::Sorry, kind of over exagurated. Could you atleast move it to my namespace please? — ク Eloc ''' 21:40, 10 January 2008 (EST) :::Done. I added it to your user page under namespace builds. [[user:Defiant Elements|*Defiant Elements*']] [[user talk:Defiant Elements|+talk'']] 22:06, 10 January 2008 (EST) ::::Ty. — ク Eloc ''' 21:41, 11 January 2008 (EST) Diddy Bow's vote. [[User:Shogunshen| '''Shen]]( ) 16:04, 10 January 2008 (EST) :Resolved. [[user:Defiant Elements|'*Defiant Elements*']] ''+talk'' 18:34, 10 January 2008 (EST) Needs to be discussed, not 0'd — Skadiddly슴Mc슴Diddles 23:34, 10 January 2008 (EST) :Votes purged and moved to trial. -- Armond Warblade 01:48, 11 January 2008 (EST) While one may argue it should be kept simply because the idea is innovative, the build fails to such an extent as to make any Great votes invalid enough to warrant its immediate deletion. Requesting a pre-emptive deletion rather than a removal of all invalid votes, which would merely delay its deletion. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 16:04, 11 January 2008 (EST) :ya, delete it. it's as fun as heavy wandage, and that build got deleted, too. - [[User:Y0_ich_halt|'Y0_ich_halt']] 17:24, 11 January 2008 (EST) Eloc's and Tifa Yawa's votes. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 10:03, 12 January 2008 (EST) :Oops, jumped the gun with the great tag, but it will be soon enough. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]]( ) 10:12, 12 January 2008 (EST)